85. Youth Innovation Lab

0:48 Lars Peter Nissen

Climate change is such an overwhelming problem that it can be hard to know where to begin. That's why I really enjoyed this conversation with Goma Khaki from the Youth Innovation Lab in Nepal. Her story is very concrete and real and a great example of how to mobilize to protect the environment and to meet the challenges of climate change. It's a powerful story about bringing together data and knowledge at the municipal level where the impact of climate change will be felt the most. It's also a story about a young generation mobilizing where older generations failed. It's a great story and I hope a source of inspiration because we need more people like Goma and her colleagues. I won't say more now. I think Goma is very capable of speaking for herself, but as always, we love it when you give us feedback, share and recommend the show. So please do that. And most importantly, enjoy the conversation.

Goma Khaki, welcome to Trumanitarian.

1:49 Goma Karki

Thank you, thank you so much. Really excited to be here.

1:52: Lars Peter Nissen

You do really interesting work with the Youth Innovation Lab in Nepal. But before we dive into that, I'd like to begin with you actually. Who is Goma?

2:05 Goma Karki

I am from Nepal, but to be more specific, so if you look at Kathmandu, so that's the capital city. So I come from Monthly Ramsha, that's like five hours drive to the east of Kathmandu. So if I introduce myself, so I am someone who is really enthusiastic about the environment and climate. So my work of interest, field of interest has always been the environment. That's where I did my bachelor's and also my master's focusing more towards sustainability. Currently, I'm leading the project Nepali Yuba in Climate Action and Green Growth. So Yuba means youth. So the whole project is focused on youth, and it caters more towards three thematic areas: governance, entrepreneurship, and advocacy. The project is funded by the European Union. And it's exciting because we have this space where we work closely with youth. And we are working not in Kathmandu, but actually in three different provinces of Nepal: Madhes, Karnali, and Sudurpashcim. These are the three provinces that fall a little behind in terms of SDI, the Development Index, and also when you talk about disaster and climate, these are the provinces we really need to work on as well.

3:23 Lars Peter Nissen

And why did you choose to work with environmental protection? What drives that?

3:26 Goma Karki

I think it connects back to my childhood and the area that I come from and the upbringing I had from my family as well. So as long as I remember I have always been closer to the environment because before coming to Kathmandu I come from a small town that's really close to rivers and forests. So that was the environment that I grew. I still remember one incident. My school was about an hour from my hometown. Back then we didn't have like a school bus or vehicles as such. So we kind of had to walk an hour to go to my school and every monsoon we would have landslides on the way. I think that was one of the triggering factor looking back that connected me back to the disasters, that I was like seeing every monsoon but then not connecting to the work to the life that I had because that was kind of norm like every monsoon we would have landslide and we had to struggle for a few months before the road would clear out so that was the way of life that had been for me when I was a kid. And another incident I would say was when I was in Cambodia for my field study - so I did my bachelor's in environmental science and mathematics. So as part of my bachelor's degree, we could do our study abroad. So I chose to come to Cambodia because it felt closer to home, but at the same time, the issues that they had were unique to the place. So I was living with the community who were vulnerable to climate change. But then more specifically, I was able to observe the livelihood of these people that had been impacted because of climate change, because they were living in the river vecines and… Due to the fluctuation in water flow, their livelihood was highly impacted. So that was something that connected me back to my home country, but also to the people of Cambodia, because we had similar culture, similar way of living, and similar economic structure as well. So that was something I wanted to pursue more. That's why I did my master's in sustainability science and policy, because that was connecting both my interests and how and in what way my academic background could make an impact, but more so how personally I could work in the field. That was way deeper and that needed more understanding of local context. I think all the work that I have been doing so far has been connecting back to locals and going back to the root cause. That's why, we are in this project, we are working closely with local municipalities because they are the ones who are actually facing all the challenges and the solution needs to be grounded in that area as well.

6:18 Lars Peter Nissen

Your work has a very strong link to your personal experience and that must be an experience that is shared by many young people in Nepal. Are there a lot of your peers who are also engaged in this space in environmental protection and preparing for climate change?

06:34 Goma Karki

I would say there is a growing interest, definitely. But I wouldn't say this is the majority of youth of my generation were working in this field, per se. I would say this field is still growing in Nepal, because if we look back into the curriculum, the focus on climate change, the focus on disaster, is yet to be prioritized, because I did not grow up studying about these things. I kinda had to be an adult and explore more, and kind of had to go outside Nepal to learn more about it. And yes, there has been the start of it, but I think there is still needs more exposure to the youth of today on this topics. But I would say those youths who are working actively in this field are here because of their personal choice, rather than like, because this is the priority that we need to work on. So I think that there are certain groups of youth who are really passionate about the topic and they do feel that they can make a difference, but that's not the majority.

7:45 Lars Peter Nissen

You work at something called the Youth Innovation Lab. What is that?

7:50 Goma Karki

It's a nonprofit civic tech company. So I joined Youth Innovation Lab, I think in June, July of 2022. Since then, it has been an integral part of my personal and professional growth. So it's a nonprofit civic tech company. Its mission is to bridge the science and public divide. So we are working towards bridging this divide through technology, through our fellowship approach.

8:15 Lars Peter Nissen

That gap you speak about, give me a concrete example of what that is.

8:19 Goma Karki

Think about how work is being done at local level. So it's more on an ad hoc basis. What we are trying to do is making it more data driven. That is one. Connected to the policies, that's second. And connected to technologies that are developed by youth of Nepal that meets the priorities and that helps to support the priorities that have been set by the government of Nepal at federal and at local level.

8:40 Lars Peter Nissen

So what is that? Is it an app for collecting garbage so you can pay for garbage with your phone or what?

8:56 Goma Karki

OK, let me give you a concrete example. I will start with the approach first, the fellowship approach. So we started at Disaster Risk Reduction, Young Leader Fellowship. So it sounds really fancy, but let me give you an example of how I actually work. So we onboard youths who are interested working in disaster and climate. And we stationed them at a local municipality for five months. So you have these youths who is interested, who also has technical and academic background of working in disaster and climate. And now we are stationing that youth at local level. So now, so.. think about the knowledge gap, think about the technical gap at local level, and you are stationing a youth who has that resource, who can bridge that gap at local level. And that person is stationing there for five months. And also imagine that in these municipalities, there are other priorities. So disaster and climate issues are not always the priorities. Sometime during the monsoon, if there is flood, then relief and rescue becomes the priority, but then we need to work more in policies, budgeting, planning. That is where we want to do the intervention. And you have this youth for five months who is always advocating for planning that is more disaster centric, planning that is more sustainable. So this youth is always sensitizing the need of data, need of understanding risks, need of identifying the exposed communities. So this youth is there, who is always sensitizing on these issues.

So that is one approach that we have been working on. And let me connect you back to the data. So we have been working with the government of Nepal to provide technical support in developing this platform. It's disaster information management system. So it's more than a platform, it's a system. It's a portal. And we call it Biput. So Biput actually is disaster in Nepali. So the portal itself is Biput portal. So that kind of brings the memory back to disaster. And this portal that is owned and housed by the government of Nepal is being localized by these youth who are stationed at municipalities for five months. So you may ask like what actually happens during localization. So there is data that the government could use, but then they're not aware of this data, like how they could use this data at local level. So these youths are actually contextualizing those data. So if there is… let me give you an example of one municipality. Suppose we are working in Brindhanagar municipality. That's one of the municipality in Karnali, so they're far west of Nepal. Now, there is a youth who is working at the municipality to localize this BIPoT portal. This youth has the technical knowledge of what data are housed in the portal, how the data could be used. And then what information that it already had that could be used in planning and decision making. Now he's transferring that knowledge to the local government employee at the municipality. So now the government of Nepal has made a provision that is of the municipality needs to have a DRR focal person. So this DRR focal person is the one who is supposed to be technically sound and he needs to have the information on how to go around working in disaster, working in disaster risk reduction and management. And now we are stationing this youth to support that focal person and provide the information that they need so that they can have proper planning.

12:39 Lars Peter Nissen

It sounds to me like you have a lot of data and knowledge around the vulnerabilities to climate change and which geographical areas are most affected and so on and so forth. And it's great that you create this platform to make the data accessible. But I think what really makes your approach special is that we've seen so often that these platforms that are built, it's not enough. You still need a real human to also make sense out of the data, to make it real and to contextualize it, to really bring it to decision makers in a way so they use the data. And that's what you do and I think it's a fantastic idea. How many young people have you seconded so far?

13:17 Goma Karki

Since I have been part of Youth Innovation Lab, we have already worked with 66 municipalities. So it's more of a fellowship approach in the sense that these youth, they are on boarded and then they are supported through a team that we have at Youth Innovation Lab. And so it's more experiential. We also call it as an experiential platform where they have this five months where they are highly engaged. So we have already worked with 66 municipalities, local municipalities. That means like we have already stationed 66 youths, young professionals at these municipalities and they are the ones who have already graduated. We currently have youths at nine municipalities and one at a province ministry. They have just started. It's actually, it has been one week since they have been stationed at the municipality. So we have a first cohort who is actually going through the similar process right now. So we have already worked with 66 and we are in the process of working with Nine More and the province ministry.

14:20 Lars Peter Nissen

And what happens to those 66 when they graduate? Do they go off and make a lot of money with Coca Cola or some other corporation? Or do they stay in touch with you? What do they do?

14:32 Goma Karki

That's a really interesting question. A lot of them actually, so when we onboard them, they would have bachelor's degrees, so that is the minimum requirement to be part of the fellowship. So a lot of them go back and do their masters. Some of them have been doing their PhD as well. But interestingly, we have 14, 15 youths who have actually joined the government services in different positions, either at local, federal, or provincials. So now they have become the advocate for data-driven advocacy, and they have become the ambassador for fellowship, plus Bipad Portal itself, because now they are working with the government in different, wearing different hats. But I think the learnings that they had through the fellowship has been an integral part. So I get phone calls from them, and they are always interested about like, how they could support the other cohort that is coming and they're always interested in sharing their experience with a new cohort. So there has been this cohort safe among the fellows who have been through this experiential journey. I think this is a really interesting journey that they had been part of. And we have 66 who have gone through this interesting experience and they're more than happy to share it with other youths who want to be part of the same journey.

15:57 Lars Peter Nissen

If you think about scaling, what is that for you? You now have nine. What does success look like? Is it 50? Is it more?

16:05 Goma Karki

I wouldn't go with the number to be happy or to be successful. I would say more of the impact they are able to have at the local level. So I'm going to be happy or successful with the nine that we have right now. If they're able to make a small changes at local level, if they're able to convince the local government or influence the local municipalities on understanding the need of data because there is a big gap on how decision making is taking place at local level and how budgeting and planning happens at local level. So if they are able to influence even few staff at the municipalities on the need of data that they could actually understand, go back to the community, identify the need of the community and study what is actually the reality and what is the need at the ground level. Then I would count that as a success. But then looking into the bigger vision of where this could go or where this could lead.

17:11 Lars Peter Nissen

And how many municipalities do you have in Nepal?

17:15 Goma Karki

We have 753 municipalities. That includes both the metropolitan cities, municipalities and rural municipalities. Ideally, we would love to have youths in all these municipalities, so that they are there to provide the needed technical support to the municipalities. But I think more than that, we need the interest coming from these municipalities as well. So far, it has been that we are the first one to reach out to the municipalities. So we are one who are saying like, okay, this is what we could do at the local level. But if it comes from the local level, I think that is the transition that would excite me. So if local government would be asking, or they would be making calls, ‘OK, we have this. We have identified this gap. And we want this kind of resources’, so that we could actually create the space for these use. So if municipality are creating the sales, then that becomes more sustainable. And they could have more of a long term engagement of youth. They could have five months, and then there could be other youth that is replacing for other five months. So that could be a continuous cycle of having an expert or having someone who's looking for that space at local level. So that would be the transition that I would be really excited to see.

18:35 Lars Peter Nissen

What's the dynamic like out there? What, when they come out, is it, ‘oh great, you're here and you understand tech, and could you please install my printer for me?’ Or is it more like, ‘younger man, you need to listen to our experience here and be quiet before you speak. So please sit down and listen’. How are young people received in the municipalities?

18:59 Goma Karki

I would say it's a mix of different things, I would say. We have had youths who were really welcomed as well. We have had youths who had a really difficult time at municipalities as well. We had had youth who were highly supported because they actually recognize the value of them being there. So we had a mix of varieties of experience over these years. But in general, I would say because the youths we are sending or stationing at local level are mostly coming from engineering, environmental science background, from forestry background. So they have the technical knowledge that municipality actually wants to have. Sometimes they don't realize. So the fellow who is stationed at the municipality kind of need to work extra hard to make a space for themselves. So that is a different kind of struggle that they have to go through. But in most cases, because they are already a technical person who is really at the municipality with the whole interest of learning how the municipality functions, exploring how they could be support to the municipality who are there to actually understand how the local governance system works. So that creates interest from youths because they are more like, okay, I'm here to learn. I'm here to support and here to go learn at the same time. I have something to share, but I have a lot more to learn from you as well. So that is the attitude that they go to the municipality. So that attitude has really, really helped them to get the trust and to also get the ownership from the municipality. So I would say in.. so once they have the trust and support from the municipality, the work that they do have been more impactful and more efficient as well.

20:53 Goma Karki

And what does the gender aspect look like? Do you have more or less an equal number of men and women? Is it easier for men to be accepted in this advisory role or do women actually have an easier time?

21:03 Goma Karki

So when we onboard fellows, we always try to look at having equal number of male and female, to give space for both qualified individuals. And interestingly, in this cohort, we have seven females and three male, and we have a lot of local youths as well. So that's a big, big advantage for the local youths to be part of it as well. So looking to the gender aspect, we usually have like 40%. So this is the cohort that we have the maximum number of females. So we are really excited, really looking forward to see. But then how they are perceived at the municipalities is a question that we explore every cohort. Because in some cohorts we have had fellows, especially who are females, they had to be aware of how they are perceived at the municipalities and then the support, what support they are receiving as well. So sometimes we have had a difficult talk as well. But in most cases, given the cultural aspect of Nepal as well, they are looked as more of a daughter and sisters, so that gives benefit for female fellows as well, because they are already perceived to be... And most fellows that we have had before, they were not from the municipalities that they were assigned to. So, some were coming from Kathmandu, some from Pokhara. So they were traveling a long distance to be there. So, recognizing that municipalities were more welcoming and they also wanted to support, make them more like, you know, protected in the space as well. So, helping them to find a space to stay and place to eat as well. But then we needed to have some difficult conversation with few individuals, but that is not the norm of it.

23:06 Lars Peter Nissen

One of the things I find difficult with climate change is that when you look at the data, you're looking at a very radical change, but it's really hard to truly own that and feel what that means and make it concrete in your life. A little bit like it was difficult to understand what COVID was when we first began with that. What do you think about that? What do you imagine the coming decades to be like?

23:29 Goma Karki

If I think about how it would look in next 10 years, I think the work that we have been putting or the work that youths who are connected with us, they have been contributing, it's making a tiny repulse. But I think this is not going to be enough because if you look into the policy aspect, more specifically in the implementation aspect, I think we are yet to be in that position where actions are speaking louder because right now it's more the talk is louder than the actions. So I'm not really comfortable with the current scenario and I don't think that's going to be comfortable in next 10 years. But I would say that the sensitization, the role of youth that is becoming more and more important and youth have been taking the leadership positions as well. So that is more giving a green light, but I would say this has to be more in a thoughtful way and more in an actionable way and that is yet to happen. So I am not so confident, but somehow hopeful that the work that we have been starting at Youth Innovation Lab are more specifically to the youths we have been part and we have really put their 100% in working at local level. Because its changes has to start from the ground level. And these youths who are stationed at the municipality, they don't have the same kind of comfort of being at home. So they are in this space where communities are suffering from landslides or floodings and communities who are more focused on agriculture and they are the ones who are not getting the crop yield at the end of the harvest that they were just looking forward to. And these fellows are coming with this kind of ground knowledge. So I think, so they are the ones who have this ground knowledge and understanding that could be valuable moving forward. But this needs to be amplified and this needs to be taken in a broader scale that we are yet to do it.

26:01 Lars Peter Nissen

One of the really interesting things about your project is that you work with such a wide range of preparedness activities. Are you also involved in response?

26:10 Goma Karki

So we are not actually working on the land-side response. We are working more towards getting that information to the municipalities. So we are not sending our fellows to respond to the events that happens, but they are there as a technical support to have this space repeat less. So to help them identify who are more exposed to these landslides events. So to have plannings and budgeting for these communities so that they're in the middle and supporting in the planning and advocacy of such. So when there is a landslide, so the fellows, they are not equipped to go in these areas. So this is usually the municipalities, but then they do keep the records of, okay, who are the individuals who are impacted by it, so that they can get the proper support that they need. So they are not, because they are not trained to go and respond, so they are not responding to these events.

27:12 Lars Peter Nissen

The thing that really resonates with me is that in everything you say, I can hear how deep rooted your work is in the Nepali reality, in your own personal story and experience. And it's just fantastic to hear about the work you do.

27:27 Goma Karki

Thank you so much. I'm really glad that I had this platform to really share about the work that Youth of Nepal have been doing and the space they are creating and how they have been really active and vocal and actionable to this field because this is the field that needs to have more and more of such youth engage. And we are really happy to start to make a small difference from our project. But it has been a really interesting journey for me as well, because I have been learning with them and exploring and growing with them as well. So it has been an interesting space for me as well.

28:09 Lars Peter Nissen

Fantastic. Thank you for coming on to Trumanitarian Goma and best of luck for the future.

28:12 Goma Karki

Thank you so much.