The Zimbabwean rapper Sibo made the theme song for Trumanitarian. In this episode we talk about growing up inside and outside Zimbabwe, being privileged in a struggling country, freedom of expression, the role of the aid industrial complex and much more.
You can find Sibo on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/58pKTxUMVHOHmpIQQ8hrgH?si=ErvymC84QjOR6MoViXCM3g
Transcript
Sibo, welcome to Trumanitarian
Sibo:Thank you for having me.
Lars Peter Nissen:Oh, it's it's a great pleasure. You know, I have this deep fear that quite a few of my listeners actually think that the theme song is significantly better than the content of the podcast and so the fact that I have the artist who did the pod... sorry, who did the track on the podcast, I hope will give me better numbers and normally, so thanks for doing that.
Sibo:Thank you so much.
Lars Peter Nissen:Sibo, you've had a great year and you released two tracks this year. One is Live the Way you Feel and the other one is called Choose One and they're available on Spotify and Apple Music and so on. Tell us a bit about your your project, your career. How is it to be a Zimbabwean rap artist?
Sibo:You know, I've been... for years, I've been writing music on the side, you know, while doing a job, nine to five and that sort of thing for years, and then decided to go full time with music last year towards the end of the year. And then a few months and COVID happens. I don't know how to feel about you know, actually feeling like I'm out there because you know, we sort of went on lockdown. But in terms of like the stuff I've been doing online and the way I've been connecting with people and putting out music and verses and things like that, it does feel... you know what, being an artist in 2O2O does feel like being a Zimbabwean artist. Because Zim is generally always in some sort of chaos or disorder. And so maybe that's actually the norm.
Lars Peter Nissen:I would say that in spite of your uniquely bad timing in terms of becoming a full-time musician, you're doing very well, I think. A lot of what you talk about in your songs is around identity, you have this big project called Rebirth. It's about finding yourself and it's a very personal journey, I sense, for a young African, a young Zimbabwean, to find your identity. That's sort of how I, from the outside, understand your perspective. Is that is that a fair read of the main thrust of it?
Sibo:That... Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And I think it's functioning for me on two layers. On the one hand, I feel like I've li-... this is sort of a rebirth in the sense of what I'm doing in my life and my career because I did the academic thing, I have two degrees, I had a bunch of jobs over the years, and that's the track I was on. And I just felt, I don't want to be on this track. But you know, there's a combination of things. The pressure of doing what society sort of goes towards, but also my own fears about doing something different than what my heart was telling me. And being an academic, it's like, 'Why follow your heart, you should follow your mind?' And then the other layer was like, me being an African who's lived in different countries and finding that identity. And so the rebirth has the cultural layer, and then it has the personal career change layer to it. I feel... You know, it's a bit different from, say, a singer, because with rap, it's something that started out as a socially conscious movement. And that's initially what I was drawn to. For some reason, I've always been interested in social-cultural issues. And I think that mushroomed partly because of being an African in Africa, and then being an African outside and having to basically question my identity. And those questions were thrust upon me through the way people would ask about, you know, who I am, where I'm from. There's sort of a feedback loop in terms of like, who really are you because people have this perception of what an African is. And then there's another layer to that, which is that I'm a privileged African. So I'm not the majority of the people on the continent. And so there's three layers to my identity. There's I grew up here and I had my community, and then I had a global community, and then the perception that okay, you're African, but you're not really part of that majority that has that struggle. And so, rap for me, and music, seems to be the medium that helps me try and make sense of all those layers. Because rap is word heavy. It's about asking the questions, about going deeper. It's not just about melodies. And so I've always been drawn to deeper questions. And that was then fed by my experiences of living outside then having all these questions that I couldn't answer, but also, I very quickly noticed things that were taboo, both in my family and both amongst friends and in society. And so it was also my way of asking and talking about things I felt were not sort of allowed. And being an introvert that was further, like, just deepened. And so the stage I'm at now is... I'm at a stage of experimentation in terms of my artistry and discovering my voice and what my identity is. I feel like at this point in terms of where I am, there's two things I'm trying to hold. And so on the one hand, I'm trying to talk about my personal experiences, the stuff that's in my heart, the stuff that's personal, the stuff that's emotional, but I'm also trying to talk about the social stuff. Those are some of the verses, actually, that have gotten a lot of attention on Instagram, when I talked about, you know, Zimbabwean Lives Matter earlier this year, things like that. And so trying to hold those two things and do them at the same time is literally what I'm trying to figure out because they're both really important to me. Because on the one hand is like, what is the state of, you know, culture and people in Africa? And even if you're not African, actually, do you... whether you care about Africa and things like that, whereas it's also about like, what's your personal identity as a person? What is... And this also has to do with questions around like, connected to the social-political, which is like, sometimes an African you feel burdened by certain things, and you want to be free from them to just be an individual. So, you know, I've had moments for example, where... you know, I tell this to friends, like, you know, to be African is to be pressured by things. You know, you're supposed to know things like how a generator works because, you know, sometimes... And I'm like, I want a society that functions so well that I don't need to know how a generator works. Can I just get to that. So I mean, it's about exploring the layers of African culture, but also trying to bring in the conversation of look, I'm privileged. And so there are things I haven't experienced, and I can only talk about from an outside view. But maybe I can be the person that's the bridge between, you know, Africa and the world, because in a sense, I've also experienced my own cultural isolation, having travelled a lot, and trying to figure out who I am amongst all this.
Lars Peter Nissen:What I found really interesting is you... the two tracks you release, they are very much about the personal perspective, your journey, so to speak. And then when we... when I approached you and asked you whether you could do something for Trumanitarian, you came up with these, I think, extremely precise lyrics and really hard-hitting messages around a far more structural issue. And I mean, you live in a country that is going to a really difficult time, has been for quite a number of years. How does that personal journey fit into the the reality that most Zimbabweans live with?
Sibo:I, you know, on the one hand, I recognise my privilege. But on the other, I recognise that, you know, I left high school early because of the instability in this country. And so I've been personally affected. And I didn't want to go to boarding school in a foreign country alone without my family. I mean... so again, there's layers to that. There's the like, I appreciate that I had the opportunity, and that my parents could pay for me to get better opportunities, but I left because things weren't good here. And my own personal community started sort of crumbling, because my friends went to different countries. And so, you know, even coming back, there's still a sense of trying to reconnect with, you know, a place that you grew up in, and it's different. And so that's one layer. The second layer is, you know, feeling the... to some extent, obviously, by proxy, not really in there, but like, the pain of what people are going through. Because no one, even when you're privileged, wants to live in a country that's struggling. Because you can feel it. You can see it when you go to the shops or you can see when you're driving down the street and someone's begging, there's a kid begging for food. And so it's heartbreaking to see. And, you know, I feel the weight of it because where... because we're the privileged ones, we're supposed to be helping... trying to help sort out these situations. And I think the challenge that Zimbabwe has is people tend to leave once they have the chance. They don't stay and fight. And I mean, I can make that judgement call for people as to what they should do. I wouldn't even know myself. And again, I also was able to have a soft landing because of my parents. And so there's so many questions around that. How do we move on from that? I mean, the other thing is that the problem of trying to become a part of the political class is you're essentially putting your life in jeopardy. It's not like first world countries where it's either some sort of public service or it's something that, yes, can affect your life, but doesn't put it at risk. So I mean, that's the problem now is that like... that's the irony of it is that like, you do need some privileged people to be a part of the political class, but privileged people are not gonna put their life on the line. They're gonna try and help through businesses through charities, through NGOs, but, man, that world, on this, you know, on the side of the world, it's just... it's crazy.
Lars Peter Nissen:And you really get us as an industry. Right, I had when I first heard the tracks, I thought, Yeah, damn, she really got it [laughing]. Just put a few words on how do you see the whole aid industrial complex, the humanitarian and development world? What what is that to you?
Sibo:It's funny. I feel funny criticising it. Because all that's gonna come right now, is criticism. But it's also what paid my fees. And so I'm in a strange position where it's like, I have this perspective, but it's because that world paid for my fees. I feel like they could be doing a lot more. Because I mean, you look at the situations on the ground in all these countries versus, you know, these institutions and what they get paid and how many people are involved. And it's like, really, this is the best we can do? I mean, you know, one of the lines I had where I said 'cycles of outsiders' was to say, people... this tends to be a system where they come in for the short term, they have a project, and then they leave. There's no longevity to it. There's no trying to understand the local culture, the local dynamics, and improving how things are handled over the years. It seems to be like a short term sort of system. And so... I mean, the other thing with that world is, what is the accountability? Because, you know, in business, if your... if people don't like your product, they don't buy it. You go out of business. But for example, if they don't meet the SDGs, or some of these goals they have, who's going to hold them accountable? Like what are the consequences of not meeting that? And so there's also a thing where it's almost too big to fail in a way. Like it's too big to actually begin to like, make sense of and drill down and have measurable goals. And I know, in a sense, when you try and measure things like these, of improving lives and things like that, it's a very difficult thing, but there needs to be more transparency from that world about what they actually can achieve.
Lars Peter Nissen:I think that sums up really accurately a lot of the critique that I think we also are levelling against ourselves internally in the industry. And I think what's interesting is that, because you're an artist, and you have this way with words, and and rap is such an interesting medium, I think you're able to hit some points and some notes, if you want, that that we don't hit in a logframe. Right, I think I... I sometimes feel like we have a very sterile language in the business. We're dealing with people after all. But it becomes very sort of new public management--very technocratic. And so what what could you give us? What kind of inspiration could Sibo give the aid industrial complex in terms of moving forward? What's what's your message for us?
Sibo:Wow, that's a that's a good question. I mean, I wish I could give more, but I think your question sort of has the answer in it, which is that... what you touched on, there needs to be a connection between the management sort of side of things, the bureaucracy, the admin, and the arts and the culture and the life. Because you're dealing with lives. So how do you bridge those two worlds? And because the art is also what helps you understand what the culture is. That's why I guess you have UNICEF ambassadors and artists who sort of come in and do that. But I mean, there needs to be more.
Lars Peter Nissen:I think that's more fundraising actually.
Sibo:Right, okay. And visibility [laughing]. Yeah, I haven't really looked into it, as you can tell. But like there needs to be... You get what I'm saying. Like, there needs to be a better bridge between what these people are trying to... Because essentially, if you're trying to help a community, you need to be able to understand the dynamics and the culture. And again, it goes back to like being realistic about what you can achieve, What are your goals? And so, my... I don't know about providing inspiration, but I can ask some questions, some difficult questions and bring awareness.
Lars Peter Nissen:I sometimes think about what you said, setting realistic goals and as we need to get more much better knowing what we're not.
Sibo:Right
Lars Peter Nissen:I think we provide one coping mechanism, several...
Sibo:Right.
Lars Peter Nissen:... and we need to really see it in that perspective and have the humility that comes along with that, so that we don't think we are out there saving the world and people, but we are trying to give them one more roll of the dice or one more chance to make it, or to break the fall. I mean, I lived in Zimbabwe for four years and worked with community based HIV programmes. And it was very difficult sometimes because it was such a desperate situation to really make sense out of what we were doing. It made a lot of sense what we were doing, but if you looked at the big picture, it was just a drop in the ocean. So trying to square that circle and think of a realistic and sober understanding of the contribution that you're trying to make and understanding that that may be very little of what is needed, I think is part of what we need to revisit as a professional community.
Sibo:And, you know, I.. It's such a daunting task because... I mean, if you think about in terms of a timescale, right, because you think of like humanitarian agencies that do emergency work, you know, what timeline are you looking at, you know? The timeline question is such a fascinating one to me because it's... it affects how people see things. So for example, with Zim, you know, people talk about what happened with the farms being taken and being given back to black people. And you can have one person say, if you're looking at, you know, a longer timeline, you may say, Okay, we're suffering now, but in the long run is going to benefit Zimbabwean people. Whereas if you're looking at a short timeline, it's like, This wasn't worth it, we're suffering now. And so the other question then becomes, What's the trade-off?
Lars Peter Nissen:Yeah, and as a European, if you look, we have had our fair share of wars on this side, right? And how long did it actually take to stabilise and find a way of finding a balance? It's... I think we tend to forget because the last decades have been peaceful here, what nation building actually is, how complex it is, how deep-rooted it is, and just how deep a wound it is. The land issue is so emotional in Africa, right? And so I really get what you're saying. It still is painful to see what's happening to your country.
Sibo:Yeah, it's... because you start to ask... you start to reckon with the idea that you might not see the change that you wish to see. And... You know, 2O2O being the year that is, a year of reflection, I've thought about a lot... I've thought about that a lot that... this idea that I have of... you know, Zimbabwe gained independence in 198O. And when you compare it to other countries, it took decades, 50 years, 100 years for it to get to a point where it's stable, and most of the people can earn a living. And so that's a crazy thing to consider is that I'm so early in that stage of, you know, history.
Lars Peter Nissen:Yeah, I'm sorry, I feel like I've been a party pooper who totally destroyed this conversation because your music is actually so upbeat and [laughing] fantastic. Into the...
Sibo:Not even! Because here's the thing, like I... this... I feel like I have dual identities in the music because the music... I've put out two songs and they're upbeat and they're like, 'chase your dreams, live the way you feel', that kind of thing, 'choose your better sort of side and work hard', but my... the some of the... A lot of verses I've done on social media that, you know, weren't put on platforms because it was, you know, just like a freestyle sort of Cypher that you do and you put on social media. A lot of the... like the stuff that went viral, like, this year on Zimbabwe, it was kind of dark. Actually, that was the lighter version! People were like, Oh, this is serious. And I'm like, Oh, okay, well, this is the lighter version of what I actually think and feel. I feel way more intense. So don't worry about going dark because that's... I write a lot of stuff like that. I just... it's funny because years ago I wrote a lot of stuff on... you know about the Zim situation when RG, Robert Mugabe, was in power. And I was like, I am not putting this out. It's just gonna sit in my laptop because I like my life! [laughing] And even the one I put out earlier this year, I was a bit nervous when I put it out. Because, you know, the thing about the situation here is, you can... it's definitely changed since RG, for sure, for sure. I mean the... in terms of freedom of expression. If you look at what people would tweet now versus what they would say a few years ago when RG was in power, it's like night and day. People... we were so afraid and so trained into just speaking at home. And so now... Although economically, and you look at the situation on the ground, people are like, 'Oh, things have actually gotten worse', you know, in terms of freedom of expression, it's changed. I still was a little nervous, because what I've noticed is that it's freedom of expression to a certain point. So you can say what you think, but if you become influential, if you become too much of an influential figure, that's when... You know when you see the arrest of certain journalists this past year, you're like, Okay, so there's limits to this. So when it started blowing up, I was like, okay, don't blow up too much. Let's not get hasty here. That was just me and my little paranoid sight. But yeah, it's crazy.
Lars Peter Nissen:I'm really... I feel very privileged to have you... have done by far the best part of the Trumanitarian podcast. And I wish you all the best of luck with your career. It takes a lot of courage to do what you've done, and I'm incredibly proud of knowing you and I think... I think you're a very cool operator.
Sibo:Thank you so much. I just want to say, you know, you've been there from day one. You heard my bars. You're like a before day one. You heard my bars when I was in university, when they were still like, I don't even know what this is, but it's just coming out and it's like raw. And you... I never forgot how encouraging you were. Maybe Mabs and you didn't understand how much it meant for me at that time to have someone outside of my friendship group to give me that validation and to encourage me to go on. Someone of your generation, especially. Because at the time, that wasn't a conversation. And I never forgot it. I held on to it. It was... you know, all that time, to keep going. So thank you.